Offside Question

[Front Yard Chickens]

It's my understanding that Player A can be in an offsides position but offsides will not be called unless Player A affects the play. (hope thats right) 

So if player A is offsides, does not affect the play, and player B who was onsides, takes posession of the ball:

1. When/how does player A get back into an onside position and become eligible to accept the ball?
2. What constitues affecting the play? 
3. Would a defender or keeper running towards the offside player (even if it was obvious the player was offside) be considered affecting the play?


Thanks,
FYC

[Black Knight]

Im not a ref, but i'll do my best. And all you refs out there can correct me.

1. I believe they have to re establish an on side position before the ball is played to them. for example if the ball is played through to them, but htey start in an offside position and come back onsides then makes a run they are still offsides. However, if they start offsides and comes back onsides before the ball is played to them then they are now onsides.
2. Affecting the play is up to the refs descretion. it can be as direct as touching the ball. Or as indirect as causing the keeper to move out of position to cover the offside player on a cross. Or if that player affects the vision of the keeper for example.
3. I think the answer to question to pretty much answer this one too.

Now its time for you refs to fix my wrong answers 

[EWSoccer64]

1. Once Player B gains possession of the ball, Player A must get to an "onside" positon before joining in the play.  This can be done by having an opponent get between him and the goal line or by having the ball advanced (in a teammate's possession) goalside of him (player A).

2.  answered by BK.

3.   Probably.  It relies on the judgement of the officials.

It's my understanding that Player A can be in an offsides position but offsides will not be called unless Player A affects the play. (hope thats right) 

So if player A is offsides, does not affect the play, and player B who was onsides, takes posession of the ball:

1. When/how does player A get back into an onside position and become eligible to accept the ball?
2. What constitues affecting the play? 
3. Would a defender or keeper running towards the offside player (even if it was obvious the player was offside) be considered affecting the play?


Thanks,
FYC

[ShelbyJ]

It's my understanding that Player A can be in an offsides position but offsides will not be called unless Player A affects the play.

Just a quick addition to the already correct answers . . . the idea of "affecting" play can be as simple as the ref deciding that the player gained "an advantage by being in that position" (Law 11), even if that just means that the keeper had to glance at the player, so a keeper or defender running to the player would/should almost certainly be called. But it can depend and is up to the discretion of the ref if they feel the player gained advantage.

Not that this matters, but I always have a private chuckle when parents are screaming at me, "Offsides, offsides!" There really is no such term--no "s" on the end--the term is offside.

[skagitcoach]

The SIMPLE answer is as one experienced referee told me a few years back: "offside is when I say it is." 

[ritz bitz]

Try this...

http://www.dynamic-thought.com/

Make sure you have your sound on too.

[Left Foot]

1. When/how does player A get back into an onside position and become eligible to accept the ball?

I've seen DD go to a knee and wait for a defender to put her onside. Can't really pretend to understand the rule much because like shootouts to end the game, it is foreign to me. 

[Victory]

DD was in a state cup game a few years back where the opposing team was awarded a free kick from about 30 out.  Just before the player kicked it 2 players ran towards the right post.  DD came out to deal with them and the ball lofted into the goal for the only score of the game.  Ref said the players were not part of the play and the keeper chose to come out.  DOC was sitting next to me and was going balistic that it was offsides.  What would be the correct call?

[Refdad]

It's my understanding that Player A can be in an offsides position but offsides will not be called unless Player A affects the play. (hope thats right) 

So if player A is offsides, does not affect the play, and player B who was onsides, takes posession of the ball:

1. When/how does player A get back into an onside position and become eligible to accept the ball?
2. What constitues affecting the play? 
3. Would a defender or keeper running towards the offside player (even if it was obvious the player was offside) be considered affecting the play?


Thanks,
FYC

First, one needs to understand that the Laws state it is NOT an offence to be in an offside position.  The offense occurs when a player, having been in an offside position, INTERFERES with play, INTERFERES with an opponent, or gains and advantage by being in that position.

Interferes with PLAY
As of 2007, interferes with play has been narrowly defined as TOUCHING the ball.  A player may be called for offside before touching the ball only when it is clear the offside player is the ONLY player who could have reached the ball.

Interferes with an OPPONENT
In the opinion of the referee, an offside positioned play DOES something (other than being in an offside position) to distract or interfere with an opponent.  The offside player must be the one judged to have taken some action and not merely that the opponent chose to take some action in response to the position of the offside player.  

Remember, it is NOT and offense to be in an offside position.  Therefore, if an opponent runs to cover an offside positioned player, there is NO offense.  However, if the offside player were to get in the way of an opponent you would then have an offside infringement.  Similarly, the offside player who blocks the view of the goal keeper has interfered with an opponent and should be called for the infringement.

Gains an advantage by being in that position
This is very narrowly defined and specifically means an offside positioned player receiving the ball from a deflection or rebound off of the goal posts/crossbar, goal keeper or any defender.  This does NOT mean on offside player should be called for infringement if they move towards the ball or an opponent.

On the specific questions:
1. Once in an offside position, there is NOTHING the player can do to place herself onside until either: a) an opponent makes a controlled play of the ball or b) a teammate again touches the ball and the player is no longer in an offside position.

2. Terminology such as "affecting play" or "involved in play" cause much confusion.  An offside player commits an infringement when she TOUCHES the ball (interferes with play), interferes with an opponent, or gains an advantage from the position (e.g. receives the ball from a deflection or misplayed ball of the opponent).

3. NO!!!

[Refdad]

DD was in a state cup game a few years back where the opposing team was awarded a free kick from about 30 out.  Just before the player kicked it 2 players ran towards the right post.  DD came out to deal with them and the ball lofted into the goal for the only score of the game.  Ref said the players were not part of the play and the keeper chose to come out.  DOC was sitting next to me and was going balistic that it was offsides.  What would be the correct call?

Victory -- read my post and see if it was helpful in answering your question on the scenario you posted.  I'm curious to see if my wording is of any help.

[Refdad]

It's my understanding that Player A can be in an offsides position but offsides will not be called unless Player A affects the play.

Just a quick addition to the already correct answers . . . the idea of "affecting" play can be as simple as the ref deciding that the player gained "an advantage by being in that position" (Law 11), even if that just means that the keeper had to glance at the player, so a keeper or defender running to the player would/should almost certainly be called. But it can depend and is up to the discretion of the ref if they feel the player gained advantage.

Not that this matters, but I always have a private chuckle when parents are screaming at me, "Offsides, offsides!" There really is no such term--no "s" on the end--the term is offside.

ShelbyJ -- your interpretation of "gains an advantage by being in that position" is a little off.  Since being in an offside position is NOT an offense, a goalkeeper glancing or moving towards the offside player is a tactical error on the part of that defender.  If the offisde positioned player were to block the view, get in the way, or pressure the defender, only then do you have an infringement.

[Victory]

DD was in a state cup game a few years back where the opposing team was awarded a free kick from about 30 out.  Just before the player kicked it 2 players ran towards the right post.  DD came out to deal with them and the ball lofted into the goal for the only score of the game.  Ref said the players were not part of the play and the keeper chose to come out.  DOC was sitting next to me and was going balistic that it was offsides.  What would be the correct call?

Victory -- read my post and see if it was helpful in answering your question on the scenario you posted.  I'm curious to see if my wording is of any help.

So in my DD case looking through CP glasses the 2 forwards sprinting towards the goal did do something to interfere with DD correct?  If not then why would every coach not send runners to attempt to distract the keeper.  The opposing coach was WPS's own dollabillz.  He obviously came up with a plan and it worked.  Hey DB you still out there?

[Keller ManCrush]

What is this "offsides" and "onsides" rule you guys keep talking about?  I have Law Eleven sitting right here in front of me, and not once does it ever mention the concept of "offsides" or "onsides".

It talks a lot about the rule regarding "offside" (singular).   

[Refdad]

DD was in a state cup game a few years back where the opposing team was awarded a free kick from about 30 out.  Just before the player kicked it 2 players ran towards the right post.  DD came out to deal with them and the ball lofted into the goal for the only score of the game.  Ref said the players were not part of the play and the keeper chose to come out.  DOC was sitting next to me and was going balistic that it was offsides.  What would be the correct call?

Victory -- read my post and see if it was helpful in answering your question on the scenario you posted.  I'm curious to see if my wording is of any help.

So in my DD case looking through CP glasses the 2 forwards sprinting towards the goal did do something to interfere with DD correct?

Let me restate the scenario from a referee's perspective:

- A free kick is taken and shot on goal.
- Two attacking players in offside position move towards goal.
- The keeper moves towards attacking players as the ball sails overhead into goal.

If I have the facts correct, then the referee's decision is correct.  The keeper's #1 job is the BALL, not the attackers.  

However, if the ball did not go directly into goal from the free kick (it was subsequently kicked into goal by some other on-side player) and the offside player pressured the keeper by running at the keeper (interfering with the opponent), then a referee would be correct to make an offside infringement decision.

[Snail]

Refdad,

I have a question about:

"On the specific questions:
1. Once in an offside position, there is NOTHING the player can do to place herself onside until either: a) an opponent makes a controlled play of the ball or b) a teammate again touches the ball and the player is no longer in an offside position."

Let's say a forward ends up in an offside position while his teamate A has the ball (either from being there when teamate receives the ball or makes a run too early). Teamate A continues to dribble the ball. Forward gets back to an onside position. Teamate A dribbles the ball a bit more then plays the ball to the forward.

The part I am confused about is the "b) a teamate again touches the ball". Does this mean that teamate A must pass the ball first to another teamate before a pass to the forward would work.

In an extreme example, what if teamate A dribbles the ball around for half an hour then passes  to the forward. Should the forward still be ruled offside?

[Victory]

DD was in a state cup game a few years back where the opposing team was awarded a free kick from about 30 out.  Just before the player kicked it 2 players ran towards the right post.  DD came out to deal with them and the ball lofted into the goal for the only score of the game.  Ref said the players were not part of the play and the keeper chose to come out.  DOC was sitting next to me and was going balistic that it was offsides.  What would be the correct call?

Victory -- read my post and see if it was helpful in answering your question on the scenario you posted.  I'm curious to see if my wording is of any help.

So in my DD case looking through CP glasses the 2 forwards sprinting towards the goal did do something to interfere with DD correct?

Let me restate the scenario from a referee's perspective:

- A free kick is taken and shot on goal.
- Two attacking players in offside position move towards goal.
- The keeper moves towards attacking players as the ball sails overhead into goal.

If I have the facts correct, then the referee's decision is correct.  The keeper's #1 job is the BALL, not the attackers.  

However, if the ball did not go directly into goal from the free kick (it was subsequently kicked into goal by some other on-side player) and the offside player pressured the keeper by running at the keeper (interfering with the opponent), then a referee would be correct to make an offside infringement decision.

RD
You have the facts 100% correct but the view through my CP glasses still thinks you are wrong   
In reality it was a very interesting stratagy DB used having the girls run clearly not towards the goal but to the post.  Do not think DD would fall for this today.  AR was insisting it was offside too.  Obviously the center makes the call.  Funny thing is the center was (and recently restarted as) DD keeper coach .

[ltg]

thank you refdad.  very well explained.  I have always wondered about that, distracting  the keeper or the defender by an offside player. forget about em. right?  and snail, the player moved to an onside position while someone else was in possession of the ball and before it was passed so they can receive the ball if they move into the onside position before player A makes the pass

another thing about the girls running to the post.  Not all centers are that experienced (like the AR)and they may have been called offside by the ref in a different game.  very risky imho

[Brian McBride]

  Here is a great link to a video explanation of the Law:
Click on the Interacticve Guide to Off Side in the link:

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/lawsofthegame.html
Sorry, I could not copy the direct link 

[Refdad]

Refdad,

I have a question about:

"On the specific questions:
1. Once in an offside position, there is NOTHING the player can do to place herself onside until either: a) an opponent makes a controlled play of the ball or b) a teammate again touches the ball and the player is no longer in an offside position."

Let's say a forward ends up in an offside position while his teamate A has the ball (either from being there when teamate receives the ball or makes a run too early). Teamate A continues to dribble the ball. Forward gets back to an onside position. Teamate A dribbles the ball a bit more then plays the ball to the forward.

The part I am confused about is the "b) a teamate again touches the ball". Does this mean that teamate A must pass the ball first to another teamate before a pass to the forward would work.

In an extreme example, what if teamate A dribbles the ball around for half an hour then passes  to the forward. Should the forward still be ruled offside?

Offside position is reevaluated on EVERY TOUCH of the ball by a teammate.  The AR must take a "snapshot" of the players position every time the teammate touches the ball to determine if any player is in an offside position.  If at the moment teammate A touches the ball, the forward is no longer in an offside position, the forward is free to receive the ball without being penalized.  It's simple: when a teammate last touched the ball, was the player in offside position?  If yes, they can't play; if no, then play away.

Some additional illustrations:

#10 WHT touches the ball and #3 WHT is in offside position when that touch occurs.  WHT #3 is now prohibited from interfering with play.  It doesn't matter how long play continues or what happens in the intervening time, WHT #3 can't play, UNTIL:
- An opponent makes a controlled play.
- The ball goes out of play.
- A teammate again touches the ball and WHT #3 is not at that moment in an offside position.
When that WHT teammate touches the ball, the AR again takes a snapshot and evaluates if WHT #3 is in an offside position.  The cycle of evaluating offside position continues with EVERY touch of the ball by a WHT teammate.

Another:

WHT #10 dribbles ball.  First touch, WHT #3 is in an offside position (can't participate in play).  At the second touch by WHT #10, WHT #3 still in an offside position (maybe waiting for his teammate to catch up?).  At the third touch by WHT#10, WHT #3 is now level with the ball. WHT #3 is now NOT in an offside position and is now free to interfere with play, interfere with an opponent or gain an advantage from his position.

...lots of words and we haven't even begun to touch on how to determine if a player is in an offside position (which in itself is NOT an infringement).  Sheesh, I'm giving myself a headache.  I think it's easier to just leave the decision to the referees, it's what they get paid the big bucks for...

[ShelbyJ]

[/quote]
Refdad, sorry my language must not have been clear, and if I gave the wrong impression, then I apologize! Refs are taught the parameters of "advantage," but was trying--not successfully--to explain that refs will often call offside to anything they feel is interference in youth games. The example I gave is one I heard a ref explain to the coach this last weekend at a U13 game--the player had caused distraction to the goalie and therefore gained advantage and was called offside. Practically speaking, therefore, I see many refs call offside if they see a player running to defend on offside forward, which is what I think the original post was. But thank you for catching this--what I write always seems so clear to me. LOL!

[Front Yard Chickens]

Big Thanks to ALL.