North Puget Sound League (NPSL) Fall 2010 Season Registration Open

[metz123]

Because npsl saw no need to expand geographically to get like vs like games. At the lower ages npsl worked very well, especially for a league in its first year. I know I was happy to not have to travel to the peninsula or tacoma last season for my u12 team. I know I'd also love to see all the p1 - p4 teams in d1,d2,d3 and d4 sign up for npsl for ghs winter season. It's much cheaper than the state league and I'm fine with playing in the winter if it doesn't mean having to cross the passes. I know I'd get great like v like if this happened and I'm going to poll as many ghs coaches as I can to hear their thoughts on where they intend to play. 

It's unfortunate that this would really hurt the eastern WA teams that currently play in the state league at ghs ages. It's also a bummer that because of the geography of most of the teams in ghs that this league becomes almost a 4th alternative  league and fractures the competitive landscape further. For teams not in the pdl, at gu15 - gu18 its becoming a full time job just trying to figure out what league to sign up for each year.   

[Hit_the_Heifer]

Futsal:

We at CB United believe that US Club is a "better league" for most of our teams.  Consistent with this view, CB United has placed all of its U11 through U15 teams in US Club.  Some teams are in COPA, some in PSPL.  Reasons:  1) PLAYER PASSES are critically important for small clubs;  US Club offers, WYSA does not.  2) US Club is significantly cheaper than WYSA.  3) the building block in US Club is the Club; that is not the case in WYSA.  Small clubs in WYSA have no voice whereas in US Club they not only have a voice, they are heard.

We share the view of the Clubs in Oregon who carefully examined the services offered and the cost of the services and concluded that US Club is the better way to go.  See analysis set forth below:

Oregon Youth Soccer
Service and Cost Considerations
June 1, 2009
Preliminary Overview
Issue: The economy is bad and is likely to stay bad for some time.  Our primary competitor in the youth soccer
marketplace (US Club Soccer) charges between $8 to $10 for recreational membership (without player cards and
with player cards, respectively).  We charge $13 for recreational membership (with a player card) and some clubs
have begun to register a significant percentage of their recreational members with US Club Soccer – or go
independent as in the case of many Portland clubs next year - in part, to save money.   
For many this is all about economics, for others, there are self-determination, service and other issues involved. 
However, there are those who believe our service and revenue model should be modified to reflect the changing
competitive and economic environment.

[tripleplay]

Isn't this a bit ironic.

A larger number teams who played in the NPSL league last year, where teams that played in District 3 the previous years.

Now after one year they are finding ways to invite District 3 teams to travel north to play them?

The new question would be, why did they leave the District 3 league in the first place?

A comparison of NPSL to District III shows that NPSL is doing many things better. This ranges from having a catchier name, a better website (D3 stupidly combines their competitive leagues with its rec leagues – totally misunderstanding the mindset of select players and parents) to taking more care at getting division placement correct. District III leagues were also harmed by not having District I teams.

What should happen is that the districts should get out of the league business altogether. Any non-profit should be able to create leagues (within USYS) and compete directly for teams on the basis of price, quality, and proximity. It shouldn’t be difficult to win back most of the PSPL teams and to tempt a good chunk of the RCL teams as well.

[EWSoccer64]

Futdsl, you are talking a 3Play wet dream here.  Just as a first stage.   The second stage is that everyone who wants to play in his league has to go to King County.  Third stage is that his team never has to travel, at all.

Isn't this a bit ironic.

A larger number teams who played in the NPSL league last year, where teams that played in District 3 the previous years.

Now after one year they are finding ways to invite District 3 teams to travel north to play them?

The new question would be, why did they leave the District 3 league in the first place?

It is ironic ... the District 3 league used to be the most competitive IDL in the state.

I wonder if eventually the NPSL will include all teams in District 1 - 4 ... Top Divison travels the entire territory ... Below that have a North and Southern Division.  D2 can go either north or south

And below the Regional Club/Open League we have ...
District 5 -> Portland Metro League
District 1-4 -> NPSL
District 6

But what do we do with District 7?

[westmark]

My understanding is that there is no interest in expanding the NPSL to take over existing leagues.  There is interest in collaborating with D3 where it makes sense (refer to this year's releases).  There is sufficient strength in the NPSL currently to give member teams good games without trying to pull D3 and D4 teams to the NPSL. Having a strong D3 League is in both leagues' best interest long term. Doing joint activities between the two leagues at the older ages makes sense as team counts dwindle.  There is no need to make another equivalent to a state league by covering half the state's player base with a single league.

Having a strong D3 league would be nice ... however between the PDL and NPSL it is far weaker than it was in the past.

The NPSL is a competitive youth soccer league that:

- Allows select teams to play in a league that makes geographic-sense and is not limited by District or Association boundaries
- Allows select teams to play in a league that is economical in both cost and time
- Is structured to ensure “like or comparable” competition.

If the NPSL is not limited by District boundaries why not include District 3 & 4? 

Would it not make better geographic sense to have teams in the lower portion of District 2 play teams in District 3? 

The bigger the pool ... the easier it is to find like vs like and to reduce travel costs. 

Hey Futsal, you left out all the US Club.  They may be diluting the D3 pool probably more than the removal of some of the D2 teams that left last year to be part of NPSL.  If you want to play in the NPSL and live outside the D1/2 lines ask them especially at the older ages.   I would love to see some more boys U16 teams in the bracket.  And for the $100-$200 to play in the league the price is right. 

[EWDOC]

Futsal:

We at CB United believe that US Club is a "better league" for most of our teams.  Consistent with this view, CB United has placed all of its U11 through U15 teams in US Club.  Some teams are in COPA, some in PSPL.  Reasons:  1) PLAYER PASSES are critically important for small clubs;  US Club offers, WYSA does not.  2) US Club is significantly cheaper than WYSA.  3) the building block in US Club is the Club; that is not the case in WYSA.  Small clubs in WYSA have no voice whereas in US Club they not only have a voice, they are heard.

We share the view of the Clubs in Oregon who carefully examined the services offered and the cost of the services and concluded that US Club is the better way to go.  See analysis set forth below:

Oregon Youth Soccer
Service and Cost Considerations
June 1, 2009
Preliminary Overview
Issue: The economy is bad and is likely to stay bad for some time.  Our primary competitor in the youth soccer
marketplace (US Club Soccer) charges between $8 to $10 for recreational membership (without player cards and
with player cards, respectively).  We charge $13 for recreational membership (with a player card) and some clubs
have begun to register a significant percentage of their recreational members with US Club Soccer – or go
independent as in the case of many Portland clubs next year - in part, to save money.   
For many this is all about economics, for others, there are self-determination, service and other issues involved. 
However, there are those who believe our service and revenue model should be modified to reflect the changing
competitive and economic environment.

OK, I'll bite, though I'm sure I'll get lambasted.

1) No player pass, OK I'll give you that one for now, but I don't expect it to be much longer before we see something similiar at WYS as it's been a topic of discussion for quite some time.

2)  How is it cheaper?  State fee is only $12, everything else you collect goes to you locally. 

3)  This one I really don't get, the whole point of the RCL and the PDL before it was to be "club" based.  Now that CB United has been given a chance for it's top team to be part of the RCL, I'm not sure how the small club is not heard.

And I'll ask one more since no one answered breakaway's question?  Where does the $$$ go that you play to be part of a US Club league?  State league goes to the state so at least you know even if you don't like them.  District league goes to district (and we can acount for our $$$ that go back to the kids), who gets the PSPL and Copa league fees? 

[Hit_the_Heifer]

OK, I'll bite, though I'm sure I'll get lambasted.

1) No player pass, OK I'll give you that one for now, but I don't expect it to be much longer before we see something similiar at WYS as it's been a topic of discussion for quite some time.

2)  How is it cheaper?  State fee is only $12, everything else you collect goes to you locally. 

3)  This one I really don't get, the whole point of the RCL and the PDL before it was to be "club" based.  Now that CB United has been given a chance for it's top team to be part of the RCL, I'm not sure how the small club is not heard.

And I'll ask one more since no one answered breakaway's question?  Where does the $$$ go that you play to be part of a US Club league?  State league goes to the state so at least you know even if you don't like them.  District league goes to district (and we can acount for our $$$ that go back to the kids), who gets the PSPL and Copa league fees? 

No blasting from me..

Unless and until WYSA allows use of player passes for all teams, and not just RCL teams, US Club has a significant advantage in marketplace.  This issue alone will drive decisions at smaller clubs such as CB United.

With respect to your other comments, the cost savings is a small consideration.

Explain how small club's voice is heard at U12, U13, and U14?  As I understand the current structure, RCL won't consider an "outsider" until U15.  As I said, the decision to admit at U15 is a step in right direction, but more steps needed to convince me to spend money for the service offered.  The "come back when you hit U15" sales pitch is not particularly persuasive. 

COPA league fee is $75.00.  Not a major concern where it goes, just like not a major concern where the District 6 league fee goes.  PSPL league are comparable to WYSA league fees.  WYSA league fees go to WYSA to cover costs of doing business.  PSPL league fee covers the same.  Non-issue from a consumer standpoint.

[EWDOC]

As far as $$$, I can't believe no one cares where the money goes when this website has so many anti-state posters on it.  District 6 league is $75 for a fall and spring season combined, COPA league changed their fees later to try and match D6 because earlier fees messaging was that it was more.  So not sure how economics plays in this decision to place select level teams into a smaller league with less competition and less ability to help ensure like competition for these teams and we are the cheaper solution because our fee covers both seasons.  That makes no sense to me...

And it's not "Come back at U15".  That is just the entry point "today" for this specific league for individual teams that have shown a history of being able to compete even when their club has not.  It's a start for sure if not the ultimate solution. 

[tripleplay]

Futdsl, you are talking a 3Play wet dream here.  Just as a first stage.   The second stage is that everyone who wants to play in his league has to go to King County.  Third stage is that his team never has to travel, at all.

I like Futsal's idea, but I don't see any reason why his excellent idea should be restricted to lower level teams. The problem is that state politicians want statewide leagues to make themselves feel more important. Their egos hurt soccer in this state. If half of California can divide itself into 5 regional leagues and produce FWR winner after FWR winner, I don't see why that formula isn't good enough for us.

[Futsal]

Mr EWDOC

When is the next District meeting?  I would like to make a formal request to add the Player Pass to the District 6 league for this Fall.  We could use the same procedures that the PDL so we won't have to reinvent the wheel. 

Washington Youth Soccer has already approved it for use by the PDL.  The PDL is simply an IDL which by definition is a league administered through a District.  We too are a league administered by a District.

It never hurts to ask ...

[EWSoccer64]

Mr EWDOC

When is the next District meeting?  I would like to make a formal request to add the Player Pass to the District 6 league for this Fall.  We could use the same procedures that the PDL so we won't have to reinvent the wheel. 

Washington Youth Soccer has already approved it for use by the PDL.  The PDL is simply an IDL which by definition is a league administered through a District.  We too are a league administered by a District.

It never hurts to ask ...

Great Idea!    You go, Futsal!!!   +100!!!

[EWSoccer64]

Poke Bessie in the Snout makes a very good point here, and one that many people overlook.    Player passes, for small clubs with great aspirations, are much more important than they are for larger clubs who are creating D,E,F, G teams.    In it's purest, most altruistic form, the player pass exists to provide appropriate and quality playing time for players.    For smaller clubs, it is a way of managing available players and keeping quality teams competitive.

In regards to District Six and its fees, Just about everyone I have ever talked to believes that D-6 does a good job.   This $75 a team fee puzzles me though, as the local club has been telling people that they have to pay a much higher fee to the district per team.   ($275?  $475?).  EWDOC, did I read correctly that D-6 charges each team only $75?

OK, I'll bite, though I'm sure I'll get lambasted.

1) No player pass, OK I'll give you that one for now, but I don't expect it to be much longer before we see something similiar at WYS as it's been a topic of discussion for quite some time.

2)  How is it cheaper?  State fee is only $12, everything else you collect goes to you locally. 

3)  This one I really don't get, the whole point of the RCL and the PDL before it was to be "club" based.  Now that CB United has been given a chance for it's top team to be part of the RCL, I'm not sure how the small club is not heard.

And I'll ask one more since no one answered breakaway's question?  Where does the $$$ go that you play to be part of a US Club league?  State league goes to the state so at least you know even if you don't like them.  District league goes to district (and we can acount for our $$$ that go back to the kids), who gets the PSPL and Copa league fees? 

No blasting from me..

Unless and until WYSA allows use of player passes for all teams, and not just RCL teams, US Club has a significant advantage in marketplace.  This issue alone will drive decisions at smaller clubs such as CB United.

With respect to your other comments, the cost savings is a small consideration.

Explain how small club's voice is heard at U12, U13, and U14?  As I understand the current structure, RCL won't consider an "outsider" until U15.  As I said, the decision to admit at U15 is a step in right direction, but more steps needed to convince me to spend money for the service offered.  The "come back when you hit U15" sales pitch is not particularly persuasive. 

COPA league fee is $75.00.  Not a major concern where it goes, just like not a major concern where the District 6 league fee goes.  PSPL league are comparable to WYSA league fees.  WYSA league fees go to WYSA to cover costs of doing business.  PSPL league fee covers the same.  Non-issue from a consumer standpoint.

[Left Foot]

Poke Bessie in the Snout makes a very good point here, and one that many people overlook.    Player passes, for small clubs with great aspirations, are much more important than they are for larger clubs who are creating D,E,F, G teams.    In it's purest, most altruistic form, the player pass exists to provide appropriate and quality playing time for players.    For smaller clubs, it is a way of managing available players and keeping quality teams competitive.

In regards to District Six and its fees, Just about everyone I have ever talked to believes that D-6 does a good job.   This $75 a team fee puzzles me though, as the local club has been telling people that they have to pay a much higher fee to the district per team.   ($275?  $475?).  EWDOC, did I read correctly that D-6 charges each team only $75?

OK, I'll bite, though I'm sure I'll get lambasted.

1) No player pass, OK I'll give you that one for now, but I don't expect it to be much longer before we see something similiar at WYS as it's been a topic of discussion for quite some time.

2)  How is it cheaper?  State fee is only $12, everything else you collect goes to you locally. 

3)  This one I really don't get, the whole point of the RCL and the PDL before it was to be "club" based.  Now that CB United has been given a chance for it's top team to be part of the RCL, I'm not sure how the small club is not heard.

And I'll ask one more since no one answered breakaway's question?  Where does the $$$ go that you play to be part of a US Club league?  State league goes to the state so at least you know even if you don't like them.  District league goes to district (and we can acount for our $$$ that go back to the kids), who gets the PSPL and Copa league fees? 

No blasting from me..

Unless and until WYSA allows use of player passes for all teams, and not just RCL teams, US Club has a significant advantage in marketplace.  This issue alone will drive decisions at smaller clubs such as CB United.

With respect to your other comments, the cost savings is a small consideration.

Explain how small club's voice is heard at U12, U13, and U14?  As I understand the current structure, RCL won't consider an "outsider" until U15.  As I said, the decision to admit at U15 is a step in right direction, but more steps needed to convince me to spend money for the service offered.  The "come back when you hit U15" sales pitch is not particularly persuasive. 

COPA league fee is $75.00.  Not a major concern where it goes, just like not a major concern where the District 6 league fee goes.  PSPL league are comparable to WYSA league fees.  WYSA league fees go to WYSA to cover costs of doing business.  PSPL league fee covers the same.  Non-issue from a consumer standpoint.

So what is the downside of player passes?

[tripleplay]

So what is the downside of player passes?

While you are at it, let's ask what the upside of player passes is that makes them so "critical" (HTH's word)?

Am pretty sure that California doesn't have them. There is a roster freeze date and any changes after that require some paperwork and the approval of 3rd parties.

I think it basically comes down to how important you value league play. If you keep the rosters fixed it adds some integrity to the leagues and makes things likes relegation and promotion seem fairer. When you are not emphasizing the regular season games and view them as a training arena, then why worry about who exactly is on any given team?

[ForTheKids]

REMINDER:

The North Puget Sound League (NPSL) Fall Registration closes on Tuesday, July 20th.

Below is link for the Fall NPSL site.
http://www.northpugetsoundleague.org

[SoccerFlicks]

Maybe Ive overlooked the link on the webpage, but where is the list of teams/clubs accepted?

[seattle_divided]

NPSL is just another money maker for some of the board members at Seattle United to make a few bucks. This is simply wreck soccer (with the added expense) of playing in a league to drive 200 miles to play other equally bad teams. They have dilluted the gene pool further by continuing their attempt at the cartel referenced on all the other threads.

[ForTheKids]

Sorry to see such a misinformed post.  

200 miles?  Seriously?  The average one-way travel time for NPSL matches has been calculated at 25 minutes, probably lowest tally of any select league in the state.

All monies collected for the NPSL go to District 1 and District 2 where they are held for payment of league expenses (fields, referees, etc.).  Does the PSPL have that level of transparency?  

There have never been nor will there be payments made by the NPSL to any member club's board or officers.  None.  Does the PSPL have that level of financial transparency?

NPSL field fees have never been paid by member clubs direct to a member club that is deep in the operation of the league.  Does the PSPL have that level of financial transparency?

I am not saying league administrators should not be compensated, just that transparency is important and misinformed statements about the financial operations of another league are unprofessional and serve no purpose.

But at the end of the day, the competition is good.  It is inconvenient to some that there are still reasonably priced play options for teams that want quality competition within close proximity. Oh well, what can you say, everyone does not need to be 'premier'.

[Crash]

NPSL is just another money maker for some of the board members at Seattle United to make a few bucks. This is simply wreck soccer (with the added expense) of playing in a league to drive 200 miles to play other equally bad teams. They have dilluted the gene pool further by continuing their attempt at the cartel referenced on all the other threads.

"Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves."

I think you're way off...
Worked great for our team last year and expect the same this... 
Good competition
Minimal travel
Couple hundred bucks including fields and refs
What could go wrong?

[EWDOC]

Sorry, been on vacation.  Yes, the district six league is $75 and includes both fall and spring for U-11 through U-14. 

I'm all for player passes as long as we have the control in place to ensure it isn't abused like we saw in the PDL.

[goldengoal]

NPSL is just another money maker for some of the board members at Seattle United to make a few bucks. This is simply wreck soccer (with the added expense) of playing in a league to drive 200 miles to play other equally bad teams. They have dilluted the gene pool further by continuing their attempt at the cartel referenced on all the other threads.

Yeah, that 100-200 bucks per team is a huge money maker.

[ltg]

Sorry, been on vacation.  Yes, the district six league is $75 and includes both fall and spring for U-11 through U-14. 

I'm all for player passes as long as we have the control in place to ensure it isn't abused like we saw in the PDL.

did you really see it abused in the PDL?  our club is one of the bigger ones and they utilized the player pass when needed for numbers, not for wins and it was always girls from B teams playing A or girls from the younger year playing older.  never were girls allowed to play down.

[NotoriousBig]

NPSL is just another money maker for some of the board members at Seattle United to make a few bucks. This is simply wreck soccer (with the added expense) of playing in a league to drive 200 miles to play other equally bad teams. They have dilluted the gene pool further by continuing their attempt at the cartel referenced on all the other thre


Hmmmmmm really?  The final four teams in the Commissioners Cup at GU12 were all NPSL Dist 1 teams, playing at a pretty high level.  Just cause it aint Premier doesn't make it "wreck"...There are some very good select teams playing good ball in the NPSL that don't have alot of options for league play, and would/have put some Premier teams to shame.  State Cup play is what keeps some of us in the states lair because we dont want to be on the outside looking in....just waiting to see how the PSPL pans out....

[ForTheKids]

Year 1 Results of NPSL Teams (U11-U15) Playing Washington Youth Soccer's Commissioner's Cup:
* 12 Quarter-Finalists
* 11 Semi-Finalists
* 3 Finalists
* 6 Champions

The teams comprising this league are doing quite fine and servicing a defined market.

[goldengoal]

Year 1 Results of NPSL Teams (U11-U15) Playing Washington Youth Soccer's Commissioner's Cup:
* 12 Quarter-Finalists
* 11 Semi-Finalists
* 3 Finalists
* 6 Champions

The teams comprising this league are doing quite fine and servicing a defined market.

Careful- now you are going to be asked about Challenge and Champ results

[ltg]

Year 1 Results of NPSL Teams (U11-U15) Playing Washington Youth Soccer's Commissioner's Cup:
* 12 Quarter-Finalists
* 11 Semi-Finalists
* 3 Finalists
* 6 Champions

The teams comprising this league are doing quite fine and servicing a defined market.

read the last sentence.  servicing a defined market and it is okay if this market excludes challenge and championship cup

[EWDOC]

Sorry, been on vacation.  Yes, the district six league is $75 and includes both fall and spring for U-11 through U-14. 

I'm all for player passes as long as we have the control in place to ensure it isn't abused like we saw in the PDL.

did you really see it abused in the PDL?  our club is one of the bigger ones and they utilized the player pass when needed for numbers, not for wins and it was always girls from B teams playing A or girls from the younger year playing older.  never were girls allowed to play down.

I won't say it was overly abused, but on some committees I sat on, it was acknowledged that there were some instances where clubs sent down players to boost the record of the B or C teams.  I just want to find a way for player to be able to move up lot down and yet prevent this kind of thing from happening.

[Futsal]

Sorry, been on vacation.  Yes, the district six league is $75 and includes both fall and spring for U-11 through U-14. 

I'm all for player passes as long as we have the control in place to ensure it isn't abused like we saw in the PDL.

did you really see it abused in the PDL?  our club is one of the bigger ones and they utilized the player pass when needed for numbers, not for wins and it was always girls from B teams playing A or girls from the younger year playing older.  never were girls allowed to play down.

I won't say it was overly abused, but on some committees I sat on, it was acknowledged that there were some instances where clubs sent down players to boost the record of the B or C teams.  I just want to find a way for player to be able to move up lot down and yet prevent this kind of thing from happening.

There is abuse in every league.

I would say that in almost 99% of the cases the referees check the picture to the player and the name to the roster.  They never check to see which team is listed on the card.  Add the player to the game roster and slip the card into the stack and you probably will not get caught.  I suspect players are playing on other teams in almost every league.

One coaches wife told me that after the Association Registrar would not approve an intra-club transfer of a player to their team ... the coaching director brought her the player card from the other team.  The player played all season but was never on the official roster.

Referees are suppose to enforce the laws of the game ... Cards are is league rule.  It might be more effective if both teams checked each others cards and roster.  If through a random audit a violation if found then both teams are penalized

I do think player cards should be introduced at the district level ... after the fall season tweak the system if it needs to be before the spring season.

[EWSoccer64]

>>>>I do think player cards should be introduced at the district level ... after the fall season tweak the system if it needs to be before the spring season.<<<

Futsal,  for years I have been told that D-6 is going to use player cards.   Some seasons, we have even done, as I recall.    Often, we have been told that we will use them THIS SEASON and then that is rescinded "becaue Association X and Club Y never got their paperwork done".   

[ForTheKids]

Over 200 D1 & D2 select teams are now registered for Washington Youth Soccer sanctioned 2010 NPSL Fall League play. 

This now represents one of the highest concentration of select teams playing in a well-defined geographic area outside of those in the RCL (translation: family convenience and an equally convenient cost point). 

Team listings will be posted shortly.