Is it true? ECNL Says No..?

[EWSoccer64]

The ECNL is the female version of the Academies, more or less.    It is different than the FWRL.  (Promoted into or qualified for/apply into based on results is pretty much the same thing).

The USCS aspect is another issue.  But easy enough to get around - as long as the state continues to look the other way while clubs, associations and districts cheat by setting up special leagues for USCS teams to participate in just so they can qualify for state cup.

By all means, let the ECNL teams into state cup - just as soon as we allow in professionals, college teams of the right age, and the USSDA squads as well.

[TheWarpedDog]

By all means, let the ECNL teams into state cup - just as soon as we allow in professionals, college teams of the right age, and the USSDA squads as well.

I hear ya EW64, chaps my hide still that the 'Olympics' allow pros...

[Left Foot]

The ECNL is the female version of the Academies, more or less.    It is different than the FWRL.  (Promoted into or qualified for/apply into based on results is pretty much the same thing).

The USCS aspect is another issue.  But easy enough to get around - as long as the state continues to look the other way while clubs, associations and districts cheat by setting up special leagues for USCS teams to participate in just so they can qualify for state cup.

By all means, let the ECNL teams into state cup - just as soon as we allow in professionals, college teams of the right age, and the USSDA squads as well.

Your "more or less" language undermines you I believe. Read this again:

"The Development Academy is a partnership between U.S. Soccer and the top youth clubs around the country to provide the best youth players in the U.S. with an every day environment designed to produce the next generation of National Team players. The Academy’s programming philosophy of increased training, less total games and more competitive games is based on U.S. Soccer’s Best Practices utilized by the U-17 U.S. National Team Residency program."

Please, please please, tell us what the negative effects are of allowing ECNL kids to play in the State Cup.

Now, DDs team had something like 8-10 ODP kids on it including a National teamer. Do we ban those kinds of teams from playing in the State Cup?

And please note that in the Academy case, the state didn't preclude participating in the State Cup, the league did.

[EWSoccer64]

The ECNL teams, like the academy teams, are franchises granted to clubs to play in a national level "league".   Not in a state level league.
The teams are recruited and formed up based upon that premise.
With me so far, Leftie?
Are teams formed up for and playing in state level leagues allowed to participate in the District Tournaments?   Not around here, at least.

Do you have any objection to colleges putting a team together of their freshmen and entering those teams into state cup play?
Or any objection to professionals playing in state cup play?
Do you believe that the Academy teams or ODP teams should be allowed to play in state cup play?

Perhaps you do.  It would be a rational position since you believe that the ECNL teams should be allowed to play in WSYSA state cups.

Here is an idea that perhaps we could both agree on.   Let's form up a new state cup (since they continue to expand anyway) and call it the "Emperor's Cup".  It is open to everyone, and college players, professionals, USCS teams that can con an association or district into setting up a special league for them, Academies, ODP teams, and the ECNL can participate in it.   It leads to no where, but it will be a state cup.   Other teams can enter it if they wish to.  There, these special teams have their special state cup.  Is everyone happy?

And tell us again how the ECNL is all that different from the Academies?  Not very, from your posting below.

The ECNL is the female version of the Academies, more or less.    It is different than the FWRL.  (Promoted into or qualified for/apply into based on results is pretty much the same thing).

The USCS aspect is another issue.  But easy enough to get around - as long as the state continues to look the other way while clubs, associations and districts cheat by setting up special leagues for USCS teams to participate in just so they can qualify for state cup.

By all means, let the ECNL teams into state cup - just as soon as we allow in professionals, college teams of the right age, and the USSDA squads as well.

Your "more or less" language undermines you I believe. Read this again:

"The Development Academy is a partnership between U.S. Soccer and the top youth clubs around the country to provide the best youth players in the U.S. with an every day environment designed to produce the next generation of National Team players. The Academy’s programming philosophy of increased training, less total games and more competitive games is based on U.S. Soccer’s Best Practices utilized by the U-17 U.S. National Team Residency program."

Please, please please, tell us what the negative effects are of allowing ECNL kids to play in the State Cup.

Now, DDs team had something like 8-10 ODP kids on it including a National teamer. Do we ban those kinds of teams from playing in the State Cup?

And please note that in the Academy case, the state didn't preclude participating in the State Cup, the league did.

[Left Foot]

The ECNL teams, like the academy teams, are franchises granted to clubs to play in a national level "league".   Not in a state level league.
The teams are recruited and formed up based upon that premise.
With me so far, Leftie?
Are teams formed up for and playing in state level leagues allowed to participate in the District Tournaments?   Not around here, at least.

Do you have any objection to colleges putting a team together of their freshmen and entering those teams into state cup play?
Or any objection to professionals playing in state cup play?
Do you believe that the Academy teams or ODP teams should be allowed to play in state cup play?

Perhaps you do.  It would be a rational position since you believe that the ECNL teams should be allowed to play in WSYSA state cups.

Here is an idea that perhaps we could both agree on.   Let's form up a new state cup (since they continue to expand anyway) and call it the "Emperor's Cup".  It is open to everyone, and college players, professionals, USCS teams that can con an association or district into setting up a special league for them, Academies, ODP teams, and the ECNL can participate in it.   It leads to no where, but it will be a state cup.   Other teams can enter it if they wish to.  There, these special teams have their special state cup.  Is everyone happy?

And tell us again how the ECNL is all that different from the Academies?  Not very, from your posting below.

The ECNL is the female version of the Academies, more or less.    It is different than the FWRL.  (Promoted into or qualified for/apply into based on results is pretty much the same thing).

The USCS aspect is another issue.  But easy enough to get around - as long as the state continues to look the other way while clubs, associations and districts cheat by setting up special leagues for USCS teams to participate in just so they can qualify for state cup.

By all means, let the ECNL teams into state cup - just as soon as we allow in professionals, college teams of the right age, and the USSDA squads as well.

Your "more or less" language undermines you I believe. Read this again:

"The Development Academy is a partnership between U.S. Soccer and the top youth clubs around the country to provide the best youth players in the U.S. with an every day environment designed to produce the next generation of National Team players. The Academy’s programming philosophy of increased training, less total games and more competitive games is based on U.S. Soccer’s Best Practices utilized by the U-17 U.S. National Team Residency program."

Please, please please, tell us what the negative effects are of allowing ECNL kids to play in the State Cup.

Now, DDs team had something like 8-10 ODP kids on it including a National teamer. Do we ban those kinds of teams from playing in the State Cup?

And please note that in the Academy case, the state didn't preclude participating in the State Cup, the league did.

Dude, what is the harm? Are you saying that the teams are too strong? What happened to the good old "include everyone" EW we all know and love? They are WA kids regardless of the league they play in. Would you refuse to allow them to play in the State League as well?

How in the world are they somehow professionals?
Some club teams have all or most of their U-19 teams made up of college players.
No, I wouldn't say that ODP should play in a state cup, but it isn't the same. The aECNL teams are standing teams from local clubs who compete with other clubs for kids and have more than one per state. Shoot, I read about one club that had two ECNL teams.

[EWSoccer64]

You carefully avoided any mention of the boys academy teams in your attempt at rebuttal, Lefty. 
And that is the biggest issue, isn't it?
Thank you for giving up on the comparison to the FWRL teams comparison.   That shows some intellectual honesty.

The ECNL teams, like the academy teams, are franchises granted to clubs to play in a national level "league".   Not in a state level league.
The teams are recruited and formed up based upon that premise.
With me so far, Leftie?
Are teams formed up for and playing in state level leagues allowed to participate in the District Tournaments?   Not around here, at least.

Do you have any objection to colleges putting a team together of their freshmen and entering those teams into state cup play?
Or any objection to professionals playing in state cup play?
Do you believe that the Academy teams or ODP teams should be allowed to play in state cup play?

Perhaps you do.  It would be a rational position since you believe that the ECNL teams should be allowed to play in WSYSA state cups.

Here is an idea that perhaps we could both agree on.   Let's form up a new state cup (since they continue to expand anyway) and call it the "Emperor's Cup".  It is open to everyone, and college players, professionals, USCS teams that can con an association or district into setting up a special league for them, Academies, ODP teams, and the ECNL can participate in it.   It leads to no where, but it will be a state cup.   Other teams can enter it if they wish to.  There, these special teams have their special state cup.  Is everyone happy?

And tell us again how the ECNL is all that different from the Academies?  Not very, from your posting below.

The ECNL is the female version of the Academies, more or less.    It is different than the FWRL.  (Promoted into or qualified for/apply into based on results is pretty much the same thing).

The USCS aspect is another issue.  But easy enough to get around - as long as the state continues to look the other way while clubs, associations and districts cheat by setting up special leagues for USCS teams to participate in just so they can qualify for state cup.

By all means, let the ECNL teams into state cup - just as soon as we allow in professionals, college teams of the right age, and the USSDA squads as well.

Your "more or less" language undermines you I believe. Read this again:

"The Development Academy is a partnership between U.S. Soccer and the top youth clubs around the country to provide the best youth players in the U.S. with an every day environment designed to produce the next generation of National Team players. The Academy’s programming philosophy of increased training, less total games and more competitive games is based on U.S. Soccer’s Best Practices utilized by the U-17 U.S. National Team Residency program."

Please, please please, tell us what the negative effects are of allowing ECNL kids to play in the State Cup.

Now, DDs team had something like 8-10 ODP kids on it including a National teamer. Do we ban those kinds of teams from playing in the State Cup?

And please note that in the Academy case, the state didn't preclude participating in the State Cup, the league did.

Dude, what is the harm? Are you saying that the teams are too strong? What happened to the good old "include everyone" EW we all know and love? They are WA kids regardless of the league they play in. Would you refuse to allow them to play in the State League as well?

How in the world are they somehow professionals?
Some club teams have all or most of their U-19 teams made up of college players.
No, I wouldn't say that ODP should play in a state cup, but it isn't the same. The aECNL teams are standing teams from local clubs who compete with other clubs for kids and have more than one per state. Shoot, I read about one club that had two ECNL teams.

[PKPOP]

I really don't understand this debate

Is it that kids want to join these teams to have better college opportunities? And is that a negative? Is it that because they play against these better teams, the ENCL will develop better players and better teams? And is that a problem? Is the problem that Crossfire and Washington Premiere use the ENCL as a recruiting tool to attract players. If these clubs didn't market their participation in the ENCL, they would not be utilizing their tools to attract good players.

An ENCL team is just like ANY other club team. You try out and you either make the team or you don't. Players pay club dues, play in a league in their state and travel out of state. No professionals and no ringers.  The ENCL was developed to offer teams a place to play some of the best teams in the country and allow the plays exposure to college coaches. Playing in the league costs money which us CP's pay

US Club is certainly attempting to have the best players and teams affiliated with them.  Why wouldn't they if they want to be a relevant youth soccer organization

Hopefully, the ENCL will create an opportunity for colleges as well as national teams to identify elite players from Washington and therefore increase the players opportunity to participate at a higher level. Isn't that we we all want?  Unfortunately, not all kids have the opportunity to play on an ENCL team. It may be geography, talent, desire or something else.

ENCL is a money maker for US Club and another opportunity for great soccer.

[breakaway]

I really don't understand this debate

Is it that kids want to join these teams to have better college opportunities? And is that a negative? Is it that because they play against these better teams, the ENCL will develop better players and better teams? And is that a problem? Is the problem that Crossfire and Washington Premiere use the ENCL as a recruiting tool to attract players. If these clubs didn't market their participation in the ENCL, they would not be utilizing their tools to attract good players.

An ENCL team is just like ANY other club team. You try out and you either make the team or you don't. Players pay club dues, play in a league in their state and travel out of state. No professionals and no ringers.  The ENCL was developed to offer teams a place to play some of the best teams in the country and allow the plays exposure to college coaches. Playing in the league costs money which us CP's pay

US Club is certainly attempting to have the best players and teams affiliated with them.  Why wouldn't they if they want to be a relevant youth soccer organization

Hopefully, the ENCL will create an opportunity for colleges as well as national teams to identify elite players from Washington and therefore increase the players opportunity to participate at a higher level. Isn't that we we all want?  Unfortunately, not all kids have the opportunity to play on an ENCL team. It may be geography, talent, desire or something else.

ENCL is a money maker for US Club and another opportunity for great soccer.

I think the debate doesn't really have anything to do with the things you mentioned.

Its about US Club Soccer vs. a run at a USYSA National title!  Its about being judged for your record rather than your label.  Its about how US Club defended there rights for players to not be excluded from their programs by local associations and now how the tables are turned.  I will be interested to see how USYSA feels about this and how they approach the situation.  As well as which clubs will latch onto this approach.

[Left Foot]

I really don't understand this debate

Is it that kids want to join these teams to have better college opportunities? And is that a negative? Is it that because they play against these better teams, the ENCL will develop better players and better teams? And is that a problem? Is the problem that Crossfire and Washington Premiere use the ENCL as a recruiting tool to attract players. If these clubs didn't market their participation in the ENCL, they would not be utilizing their tools to attract good players.

An ENCL team is just like ANY other club team. You try out and you either make the team or you don't. Players pay club dues, play in a league in their state and travel out of state. No professionals and no ringers.  The ENCL was developed to offer teams a place to play some of the best teams in the country and allow the plays exposure to college coaches. Playing in the league costs money which us CP's pay

US Club is certainly attempting to have the best players and teams affiliated with them.  Why wouldn't they if they want to be a relevant youth soccer organization

Hopefully, the ENCL will create an opportunity for colleges as well as national teams to identify elite players from Washington and therefore increase the players opportunity to participate at a higher level. Isn't that we we all want?  Unfortunately, not all kids have the opportunity to play on an ENCL team. It may be geography, talent, desire or something else.

ENCL is a money maker for US Club and another opportunity for great soccer.

I think the debate doesn't really have anything to do with the things you mentioned.

Its about US Club Soccer vs. a run at a USYSA National title!  Its about being judged for your record rather than your label.  Its about how US Club defended there rights for players to not be excluded from their programs by local associations and now how the tables are turned.  I will be interested to see how USYSA feels about this and how they approach the situation.  As well as which clubs will latch onto this approach.

If you are correct, and the fact that EW can't seem to come up with any damage or harm that would be done by these LOCAL kids on a LOCAL club playing in State Cup suggests it, it is a pi$$ poor rational upon which WYS would institute a policy banning these kids from playing.

I've practically begged EW to come up with some negative consequences or some harm that would accrue to KIDS from allowing the ECNL teams to play in the State Cup but thus far, nada. Anyone else have any ideas?

[Soccer Wonk]

If you are correct, and the fact that EW can't seem to come up with any damage or harm that would be done by these LOCAL kids on a LOCAL club playing in State Cup suggests it, it is a pi$$ poor rational upon which WYS would institute a policy banning these kids from playing.

From the article posted earlier in this thread:

ENCL - Board Meeting - Bellevue WA
Reported on TopDrawerSoccer
7/15/2010

BELLEVUE, WASHINGTON - On the eve of the inaugural ECNL  National Championships, which will be contested here in three age groups (U15-U17) beginning Thursday, the now 52-member organization held an Annual General Meeting, with two central issues of special interest.

.....

On the subject of ECNL becoming a more exclusive competition, board members Christian Lavers of FC Milwaukee and Doug Bracken of Ohio Elite reiterated that ECNL member teams will not be permitted to play in the U.S. Youth Soccer National Championship Series beginning with the 2011-2012 season.

Washington Youth Soccer isn't banning the ECNL teams from playing in its cups. The ECNL is banning its teams from playing in certain USYS events.  The question is, what does "U.S. Youth Soccer National Championship Series" encompass? Everyone is assuming that means the state cups, as well as regionals and nationals. Or, as someone leaped to the conclusion in one of the other soccer forums, does it mean ECNL teams can't play in USYS leagues, period? It's not an unrealistic logical leap, as that would parallel what is being done with the USSDA program for the boys.

[Left Foot]

If you are correct, and the fact that EW can't seem to come up with any damage or harm that would be done by these LOCAL kids on a LOCAL club playing in State Cup suggests it, it is a pi$$ poor rational upon which WYS would institute a policy banning these kids from playing.

From the article posted earlier in this thread:

ENCL - Board Meeting - Bellevue WA
Reported on TopDrawerSoccer
7/15/2010

BELLEVUE, WASHINGTON - On the eve of the inaugural ECNL  National Championships, which will be contested here in three age groups (U15-U17) beginning Thursday, the now 52-member organization held an Annual General Meeting, with two central issues of special interest.

.....

On the subject of ECNL becoming a more exclusive competition, board members Christian Lavers of FC Milwaukee and Doug Bracken of Ohio Elite reiterated that ECNL member teams will not be permitted to play in the U.S. Youth Soccer National Championship Series beginning with the 2011-2012 season.

Washington Youth Soccer isn't banning the ECNL teams from playing in its cups. The ECNL is banning its teams from playing in certain USYS events.  The question is, what does "U.S. Youth Soccer National Championship Series" encompass? Everyone is assuming that means the state cups, as well as regionals and nationals. Or, as someone leaped to the conclusion in one of the other soccer forums, does it mean ECNL teams can't play in USYS leagues, period? It's not an unrealistic logical leap, as that would parallel what is being done with the USSDA program for the boys.

I knew that. But EW posed the question whether WYS shouldn't ban the ECNL teams for whatever reason.   AND, US Club soccer shouldn't ban them either. At least they are up front that it is just a casualty of war.

[breakaway]

I really don't understand this debate

Is it that kids want to join these teams to have better college opportunities? And is that a negative? Is it that because they play against these better teams, the ENCL will develop better players and better teams? And is that a problem? Is the problem that Crossfire and Washington Premiere use the ENCL as a recruiting tool to attract players. If these clubs didn't market their participation in the ENCL, they would not be utilizing their tools to attract good players.

An ENCL team is just like ANY other club team. You try out and you either make the team or you don't. Players pay club dues, play in a league in their state and travel out of state. No professionals and no ringers.  The ENCL was developed to offer teams a place to play some of the best teams in the country and allow the plays exposure to college coaches. Playing in the league costs money which us CP's pay

US Club is certainly attempting to have the best players and teams affiliated with them.  Why wouldn't they if they want to be a relevant youth soccer organization

Hopefully, the ENCL will create an opportunity for colleges as well as national teams to identify elite players from Washington and therefore increase the players opportunity to participate at a higher level. Isn't that we we all want?  Unfortunately, not all kids have the opportunity to play on an ENCL team. It may be geography, talent, desire or something else.

ENCL is a money maker for US Club and another opportunity for great soccer.

I think the debate doesn't really have anything to do with the things you mentioned.

Its about US Club Soccer vs. a run at a USYSA National title!  Its about being judged for your record rather than your label.  Its about how US Club defended there rights for players to not be excluded from their programs by local associations and now how the tables are turned.  I will be interested to see how USYSA feels about this and how they approach the situation.  As well as which clubs will latch onto this approach.

If you are correct, and the fact that EW can't seem to come up with any damage or harm that would be done by these LOCAL kids on a LOCAL club playing in State Cup suggests it, it is a pi$$ poor rational upon which WYS would institute a policy banning these kids from playing.

I've practically begged EW to come up with some negative consequences or some harm that would accrue to KIDS from allowing the ECNL teams to play in the State Cup but thus far, nada. Anyone else have any ideas?

The only fault is too many games.  In June there is a lot going on and way to many games trying to be played.

It's truly about power and money.  However, the main focus for US Club is truly about not allowing ECNL Clubs to participate in the competitor's National League which is similar.  Like Farwest Regional League, if you are a National League Champion you get a berth to Nationals.  These teams are all accepted based on their merit not how big their club is.  Then they prove their merit on the field and earn the right to be there.
Could US Club and the ECNL league be threatened by this?

I was talking to my cousin in Florida.  Disney used to be a tournament about Merit, but this last year the tournament committee received a lot of grief for letting in so many ECNL teams.  Teams that had earned the right to be there were excluded.  Now there is talk that US Club will host there own tournament the same time the 27th-30th in Sarasota.  What is the point of that? Disney has always been a prestigous tournament similar to Surf, now it seems these tournaments will begin to lose their luster if they are accepting teams because of the ECNL tag instead of the fact they used proof.  So I guess that leaves many of the top college coaches deciding between going to Disney and the ECNL leagues own get together.  This is of course all talk, not sure if it's true or if it will even pan out.  I guess we will see next December.

[breakaway]

I don't see how this is being compared to the USSDA for boys!  There is a path and a mission to that PROGRAM.  I don't see the path or mission in ECNL

[Soccer Wonk]

Great info on the ECNL/National League, "Legs-to-die-for" I got the sense in poking around some of the other forums that's what was going on ultimately, but that aspect of it is pretty much off the radar on WPS.

As for the ECNL/USSDA comparison, quoting from the article posted earlier in the thread:

When ECNL was first announced, some of the more prominent organizers discussed their desire for USSF to establish an Academy program for Girls as it has done for the Boys. The formation of the ECNL was in part meant to get the ball rolling toward that end. While it is completing its 2nd year of national competition and a more expansive competitive format is set to launch in season 3, the policies and codes for training and player development that are so vital to the Boys Developmental Academy, are not in place yet for the Girls. A set of guidelines were published last year but these to this point serve mainly as suggestions, as there is no means thus far of enforcing clubs to follow them.

So the comparison is a valid one from a macro level, but as BA alluded to and the snippet above admits, there's a long way to go in terms of putting actual policies and guidelines in place. Until that happens, it does indeed come off as more of a turf war fought by adults, that ends up with the highest-level kids playing more games which is opposite of the direction the USSF would like to take.

[EWSoccer64]

Lefty,
The ECNL franchises are awarded to clubs.  The clubs then form up the teams to compete in the national league.   Just like the USSDA, which the ECNL is loosely modelled after.
That is what makes them illegitimate for state cup play.  Let them play like vs like against other national league type teams, since they made the choice to do so.

As I said before, I am leaving aside the entire USCS issue.   

[Left Foot]

Lefty,
The ECNL franchises are awarded to clubs.  The clubs then form up the teams to compete in the national league.   Just like the USSDA, which the ECNL is loosely modelled after.
That is what makes them illegitimate for state cup play.  Let them play like vs like against other national league type teams, since they made the choice to do so.

As I said before, I am leaving aside the entire USCS issue.   

Ok, don't answer. Local kids playing for local teams in local clubs. Where is the harm?

[breakaway]

“I think it’s too bad that soccer in this country has become so political and that soccer organizations, -the grownups- lose sight of the importance of this being a game,” said Sage. “We need to allow youth soccer players access to all sorts of opportunities and not throw up a bunch of roadblocks to limit those opportunities and we, (US Club Soccer) don’t agree with that. Hopefully we can move forward and keep the kids’ best interest at heart.” ~~ Bill Sage, Executive Director, CEO of US Club Soccer

[EWSoccer64]

I have answered, repeatedly.   If you don't get it, then you don't get it.  Move on.

Lefty,
The ECNL franchises are awarded to clubs.  The clubs then form up the teams to compete in the national league.   Just like the USSDA, which the ECNL is loosely modelled after.
That is what makes them illegitimate for state cup play.  Let them play like vs like against other national league type teams, since they made the choice to do so.

As I said before, I am leaving aside the entire USCS issue.   

Ok, don't answer. Local kids playing for local teams in local clubs. Where is the harm?

[Left Foot]

I have answered, repeatedly.   If you don't get it, then you don't get it.  Move on.

Lefty,
The ECNL franchises are awarded to clubs.  The clubs then form up the teams to compete in the national league.   Just like the USSDA, which the ECNL is loosely modelled after.
That is what makes them illegitimate for state cup play.  Let them play like vs like against other national league type teams, since they made the choice to do so.

As I said before, I am leaving aside the entire USCS issue.   

Ok, don't answer. Local kids playing for local teams in local clubs. Where is the harm?

Ok, no real harm to kids or their developmental, just bureaucratic hog wash and a dislike for club based success inclusion criteria. Now I get it!

[PenaltyKick]

What's the difference between several club 'A' teams participating in Red Bull Showcase Tournaments, not labeled as 'ECNL', and playing similar, if not the same showcase tournaments with a new title?

[PKPOP]

I looked at the USSDA on the web and I see that there are games starting in September and going through June. There is a complete schedule with multiple games on weekends for a total of 22 games. The teams are 2 age groups combined 15/16  17/18. Most games are played in the fall but continue through winter and spring

The ENCL is different. Each team is a single age group. Not counting the ENCL Championship, there are 5 weekends that an ENCL team can participate in tournaments throughout the year. Each tournament is 3 games. Most teams participate in 3 or 4 of the 5 tournaments.  The 2 systems are really not the same. The ENCL may be a stepping stone, but it is certainly not an Academy. Right now it is an opportunity for Club Teams to play higher level competition.

As far as membership into the ECNL, I cannot confirm how you become a member, but I am confident that you have to be a large and successful club. I agree that there may be some clubs meeting this criteria that are not admitted.

As far as US Club trying to restrict participation of their ENCL members, we will have to wait and see how that turns out. Right now the ENCL Championships or US Club Championships have nowhere near the importance of the USYSA Championship tournament. However, if that should change, I don't see a problem with it. Monopolies get complacent and competition is healthy. The state of Washington is a perfect example. PDL and US Club have forced changes

More competition at higher levels on a regular basis is a good thing for women's soccer.

[billybuck]

I agree that having more choices of leagues to play in is good for everyone, however I don't understand how the ECNL prohibiting it's member clubs from participating in competing leagues (USYSA), benefits anybody

[mudge]

I agree that having more choices of leagues to play in is good for everyone, however I don't understand how the ECNL prohibiting it's member clubs from participating in competing leagues (USYSA), benefits anybody

The Politics of Exclusion. Our Club can be lifted through excellence, or by keeping your Club out. And admission has its price.

Re-read Dr. Suess' wonderful allegory The Sneetches. It speaks volumes about this type of human behavior.

[soccer45girls]

Question, more out of curiosity than anything. Can a player play in the ECNL for one club, and play in their RCL league for another club? Would this solve the problem for some?

[ltg]

Question, more out of curiosity than anything. Can a player play in the ECNL for one club, and play in their RCL league for another club? Would this solve the problem for some?

no.  they need to be rostered with the club. i think a b team member or a play up can play in an ecnl league game and be on the ecnl roster as they have a roster size larger than usysa.  it is just the regular team playing in the ecnl league.  just like the daisy 95s playing in pspl.  the only difference is a club must apply for acceptance to the ecnl league.  crossfire applied and was accepted and played in the league last year.  a club once accepted must have their u15-17 teams compete in the league. one team per age group.  there are requirements for how many of the posted tournaments you must compete in.  I think it is 3/5.  there are also some league games.  this year several washington clubs applied and crossfire remained and wpfc was accepted.  no oregon teams are in it this year but that doesn't mean they won't be next year.  also, more washington teams may be accepted next year.  those are administrative questions and i believe this is an evolving league.  so although we have a roster of 18 for our rcl wsysa team, we could i think add up to 6 players from our B team to our ecnl roster.  but i am not positive.  we cannot add players who are not part of our club, this i know.

[EWDOC]

“I think it’s too bad that soccer in this country has become so political and that soccer organizations, -the grownups- lose sight of the importance of this being a game,” said Sage. “We need to allow youth soccer players access to all sorts of opportunities and not throw up a bunch of roadblocks to limit those opportunities and we, (US Club Soccer) don’t agree with that. Hopefully we can move forward and keep the kids’ best interest at heart.” ~~ Bill Sage, Executive Director, CEO of US Club Soccer

Every once in a while I go back and review threads, I missed this the first time and now can't stop laughing...this is freaking hilarious...

[tripleplay]

I really don't understand this debate

Is it that kids want to join these teams to have better college opportunities? And is that a negative? Is it that because they play against these better teams, the ENCL will develop better players and better teams? And is that a problem? Is the problem that Crossfire and Washington Premiere use the ENCL as a recruiting tool to attract players. If these clubs didn't market their participation in the ENCL, they would not be utilizing their tools to attract good players.

An ENCL team is just like ANY other club team. You try out and you either make the team or you don't. Players pay club dues, play in a league in their state and travel out of state. No professionals and no ringers.  The ENCL was developed to offer teams a place to play some of the best teams in the country and allow the plays exposure to college coaches. Playing in the league costs money which us CP's pay

US Club is certainly attempting to have the best players and teams affiliated with them.  Why wouldn't they if they want to be a relevant youth soccer organization

Hopefully, the ENCL will create an opportunity for colleges as well as national teams to identify elite players from Washington and therefore increase the players opportunity to participate at a higher level. Isn't that we we all want?  Unfortunately, not all kids have the opportunity to play on an ENCL team. It may be geography, talent, desire or something else.

ENCL is a money maker for US Club and another opportunity for great soccer.

I think the debate doesn't really have anything to do with the things you mentioned.

Its about US Club Soccer vs. a run at a USYSA National title!  Its about being judged for your record rather than your label.  Its about how US Club defended there rights for players to not be excluded from their programs by local associations and now how the tables are turned.  I will be interested to see how USYSA feels about this and how they approach the situation.  As well as which clubs will latch onto this approach.

If you are correct, and the fact that EW can't seem to come up with any damage or harm that would be done by these LOCAL kids on a LOCAL club playing in State Cup suggests it, it is a pi$$ poor rational upon which WYS would institute a policy banning these kids from playing.

I've practically begged EW to come up with some negative consequences or some harm that would accrue to KIDS from allowing the ECNL teams to play in the State Cup but thus far, nada. Anyone else have any ideas?

The ban isn't coming from WYS, it's an ECNL decision. My guess is the ECNL doesn't want its teams playing and losing in State competitions because it would tarnish the luster of the ECNL. And let's face it. In many states (e.g. Oregon) the USYS politicians are turning the USYS State Cup into a joke with their policies of excluding the best teams from playing in it. USYS needs to step into places like OR, NorCal, and Washington where power-hungry politicians attempt to use State Cup access as a way to achieve monopolistic control of the sport. If they don't, they will see their tournaments decline.

[lester]

Question, more out of curiosity than anything. Can a player play in the ECNL for one club, and play in their RCL league for another club? Would this solve the problem for some?

I disagree with itg.  I think the answer is yes.  US Club is a completely different organization, teams can roster 24 or 26 players. Players can be on an ECNL with one club and on a USYSA team with another club (or with the same club on a different team).
I agree with EWDOC.  I find it funny but I'm pretty sure for different reasons.

[ltg]

Question, more out of curiosity than anything. Can a player play in the ECNL for one club, and play in their RCL league for another club? Would this solve the problem for some?

I disagree with itg.  I think the answer is yes.  US Club is a completely different organization, teams can roster 24 or 26 players. Players can be on an ECNL with one club and on a USYSA team with another club (or with the same club on a different team).
I agree with EWDOC.  I find it funny but I'm pretty sure for different reasons.

Lester, I asked this very question to the man in charge and he said NO.  players must be rostered to the club.  we had talked about having several girls play with us just for ecnl and it was an adamant NO not allowed.

[soccer45girls]

It's strange to me that you can't have different players, since it's a completely different league. You would think that there could be a roster, or registered team with different players for each league. I guess I just don't understand, but it's not the first time.